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Tuesday
Nov012011

Is Attachment Parenting Even Possible With Number Two?

So, Internet, once again I look to you for validation and the answers to my parenting queries. This time it's about Attachment Parenting. 


 


I'm wondering, is the AP approach even possible for the second kid. (PLEASE NOTE I AM TALKING ABOUT THE HYPOTHETICAL SECOND KID. NOT THE ACTUAL GESTATING SECOND KID BECAUSE IF THERE IS ONE THING THAT SCARES MORE THAN VAMPIRES AND MURDERY BOB CATS, ITS THE IDEA OF A SECOND KID.)


After roughly 14 months of attachment parenting and  14 months of not sleeping, I kind of hate Dr. Sears. A few months ago, I kinda quit the whole AP club. It's a work in progress. I'm slowly tapering. But my hope is to be free and clear, librearted from the AP fold very soon. 


 


Ages ago, when Stella was just a wee pup, I read Erica Jong's piece in the WSJ trumpeting the demerits of the AP way. I thought, this Jong person, what the hell does she know? She only had one kid! She's obviously just a selfish jerk! Well, turns out, surprise surprise, upon rereading her piece 18 months into this whole parenting gig, I'm inclined to agree with many of her arguments.


 


Jong's overarching thesis is that Attachment Parenting harms women. While don't necessarily buy into the political side of her argument - Jong argues that attachment parenting is anti-feminist and a potential tool of the political right - she does make a few substantive points. Mainly that attachment parenting and the broader issue of materphilia sideline women and elevate their progeny to the status of unknowing little dictators, who reign over every aspect of their mothers' lives, curtailing their freedoms and usurping their identity. 


I don't know WHAT sort of Machiavellian plan the Dr. Sears and his AP army have up their collective sleeve, or why they like to remind new and fragile parents, ever so gently of course, about the dangers of crying and the risk of giving your baby a broken brain. But I do know that I kind of want to punch them in the face. Figuratively of course. 


 


Let me explain. Stella cried a lot. She had colic, so that was a solid 4 hours of crying right there. And so of course I go from OMG my baby has colic to OMG SHE IS GOING TO HAVE A CARDIAC ARRHYTHMIA AND ITS MY FAULT BECAUSE SO MUCH CRYING via The Baby Book and Attachment Parenting International. So, anyway, my acute crying phobia lead me to pick up my kid the moment she peeped. To respond to her before she even had a second to whimper. To turn off the stove, stop dinner, and cuddle on demand. 


 


Now that was all fine and dandy, until she expected that kind of response time in the middle of the night. Every hour. Or at all times of the day. Even though she's almost a year and a half. Remember how she won't play by herself? I probably blame Dr. Sears for that as well.


 


Which brings me back to the very hypothetical second child. If I were to have a second child, and if I were to respond to said second child as quickly as I do (and did) to Stella, I would end up in some kind of crazy space-time-continuum wormhole. Because it would be impossible. Having a second kid necessitates a certain degree of disregarded unattended wah wahs. Or so I assume. If you have simultaneous criers, one of them is going to be ignored. It's pretty much science. 


 


So, jerks like Dr. Sears et. all who make me feel like a villainous rogue for expecting my kid to get a reasonable amount of sleep or leaving my kid to cry for five minutes while I do the dishes can just shut their front covers because whateverthelll, you have no idea. 


 


I'm continuing to work through the process of becoming an ex-attachment parent. I'm in Attachment Parenting recovery. And I'm wondering, Internetland, do you attachment parent? Do you have a second child? Are you crushed buy the burdens of AP anti-feminism? Or are you happy and self secure in your hippie fairy dust parenting practices? 


 

Reader Comments (26)

Well, I can definitely answer that last question. I am NOT happy and self secure in my hippie fairy dust parenting practices ... hahaha. I have three littles ones (4, 3, almost 1) and somewhere along the line ... I think right before our second was born, I got interested in AP. I tried to practice after our second son was born, and it made things worse for me. I was crazy. Almost literally. When our second son was 1, I gave up. I let him cry it out and he started sleeping through the night. And then I got some sleep. And then I wasn't crazy anymore. It was hard transitioning from not letting him cry it out to letting him cry it out (in other words, just being a normal baby), simply because I had set up this automatic reaction in my brain, you know what I mean? 'He's crying! Hold him, and fast!'

Now, with three, I'm pretty lax about the whole crying thing. I wouldn't call myself totally AP -- it's all about moderation. And I'll tell you what I've noticed -- when my kids get more sleep at night, they 'cry' less during the day. Our relationship is better after we've all had sleep. (I know that sleep isn't the only AP issue, but I do think it's the one that people talk about the most)

I don't know if this really answered any question or added to the discussion. I feel like I've basically just rambled a bit. I've been reading your blog for a while, and I don't know if I've ever commented!
November 2, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterRebecca in NC
Thanks for the comment, Rebecca...and it wasn't in the least ramble-y. Rather, it served exactly the purpose that I was seeking, namely validating my choice to do CIO which, obviously, I'm still having ambivalent feelings about.We did a sort of sleep training thing with Stella, though it's not completed yet as Mr. Chef is still spending half the night in her room, but I totally agree that sleep makes for a happier family, and it needs to be prioritized.

As for the other aspects of AP - babywearing, breastfeeding, birth bonding etc - I think they're totally overblown. Let's take babywaring. The AP crowd quotes higher babywearing rates in more traditional societies, and equates this with more baby-friendly, better parenting. The idea that wearing a baby is somehow more natural and more moral is silly and also smacks of the noble savage. I can tell you here in Japan, babywearing is common, but so is leaving a baby crying in a bouncy chair until he falls asleep, no matter how long that takes.

I could go on - breastfeeding - though I still do it - is not the miracle awesome super cure for everything and there are FEW things that annoy me more than people freaking about formula ads. Because formula companies, are, obviously, the hight of evil, worse than weapons manufactures, war criminals, and global warming. Sheesh. ANyway...now what were you saying about rambling???
November 2, 2011 | Unregistered Commentererica
Oh, great question Erica! I've read many pro/con/ex-AP experiences but don't think I've ever heard the question posed with regard to baby #2.

I would never be accepted into the AP club in the first place because I did not co-sleep and have more moderate views on baby/toddler sleep. BUT, I do/did practice many of the other tenets - breast-fed for over a year, responsive to cues/cries, did not spend much time apart in the early months (or first year, really).

For what it's worth, I would actually say I was more attached and better attuned the second time around. The first reason was purely logistical: I wore my baby constantly because I had a two year old to chase after. With the first I held her a lot at home and wore her as necessary out and about, but I wasn't really an intentional babywearer. With #2 he was in the Moby wrap for hours per day in the first few months just so I could function as a mom.

I also think I was more attuned to him just because I was more relaxed as a mom. I nursed more often because I was too tired to think about how many hours it had been since the last time (yes, I know you're not supposed to watch the clock anyway but my personality is super scheduled naturally and I couldn't help but at least observe our patterns and schedule the first time - the second time...too tired to care).

Finally (and this is pure circumstance with my own situation) I went from working outside the home 2 days a week the first time to being home full-time the second time...so no pumping, no bottles of pumped milk, no caregivers other than me, etc.

So...funny you should ask - I was CLOSER to being an AP parent with my second than with my first. (And I'm a bigtime baby-pusher so I say, unequivocally, GO FOR IT :) ).
November 2, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterPowersofmine
Disclaimer 1: I not have cahildrens.Disclaimer 2: Everything I have learned about parenting I have learned from this blog and Calvin and Hobbes.

So I have this sister, and she's in a very similar position to your own. And I have seen the crying phobia in action. Being completely ignorant of the effect that hearing your progeny squeal despondently can have on one's psyche, I chose not to judge.

Hey, a parent's gotta to do what she's gotta do.

I wonder if my sister will come to the same realization as you? I hate to be that person. You know, the person without kids who tells parents their behavior needs a mod.

But especially after reading this particular post, I feel even more sure that there's a certain amount of over-worrying that's happening when it comes to choosing the right style of parenting.

I mean, outside of the obvious throwing baby in a dumpster, just how vital is it that a kid be parented according to one method alone? Will the kid get an identity crisis if she's given the AP treatment from 0-1 and the DP (Detachment?) from 1-4?

I was a kid once, and if there's one thing I'm certain of, my parents DID NOT deploy the AP style.

And guess what? I still love them. I'm well-adjusted. I live on my own. I have formed loving relationships (granted, I dumpster dive...).

But that's another matter. I'm sure (I hope) Sear's isn't making any claims about the long-term effect that AP style or otherwise will have on a child't life.

My point, is 1) even if you choose to use one style of parenting, I'm pretty certain it's impossible to adhere to that style all the time anyways, meaning most of its followers are already a nice mix of different methods.

2) Parents worry too much about their kids. Trust me. If you're worrying about whether your kid is going to survive your style of parenting, you're probably well on your way to being a fantastic parent.

Kids need hugs and love. So why can't we just let them be hugged and loved? Why put a label on your actions that will ultimately give you equal parts anxiety and reassurance? I carried my kid around all day! Phew, I am a great AP parent so my kid will be awesome. Shit! my kid's crying and I haven't checked in on her yet! My kid's life is hell and I'm a terrible parent.

Is it just me, or isn't that kind of masochistically weird??

RAMBLE FOR THE WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 2, 2011 | Unregistered Commentersketch
I guess I attachment parent. The only book I read before my son was born was Babywise, which I thought was a good book (then when it totally did not work for us I looked it up and saw it's basically about torturing babies). I tried scheduling but it made both of us unhappy. I tried the crib and never got sleep. I tried the stroller and that was horrible. Soon I just decided to go with the tried and true "whatever the hell works" parenting theory. Living in Japan, and my baby's temperament, things like co-sleeping, baby-wearing (so much easier in tiny shops), cloth diapering (okay, that was allergies to sposies), extended breast feeding and other tenets of attachment parenting really worked.

One of the only parenting books you can get as the same text in Japanese and English is the Dr. Sears Baby Book and I think it's easy to see why, that really meshes with Japanese parenting styles. It's what people learn from their parents, and Dr. Sears just kind of gives it the okay. I was relieved to read The Baby Book, because other than the ridiculous vaccination information, it seemed like a confirmation that what I was doing was okay. My parents were horrified at co-sleeping, breastfeeding and cloth diapering, and so many of my friends from home who already had babies (so at younger ages than me) were kind of shocked too. After a visit there I felt like a failure as a parent, so reading Dr. Sears was a help.

I get the anti-feminist argument of AP, I do. It must seem horrible to some people to be with your baby all the time. It must seem like a huge burden for the mother.

But in my case, it was liberating. There are no babysitters around here so I'd have to be with my kid anyway until going back to work (which is not as fun as being with the baby for me). So I liked to make time with my kid easy. I used bottles with my son for a while when he had feeding issues, and popping a boob out is so much easier than getting up every two hours to set the kettle, disinfect previous bottles, hold crying child while trying to measure formula, etc. Co-sleeping (ie rolling over and popping out a boob) was so much easier than getting all the way up, walking down the hall, fumbling to crib, trying to lift baby up, and then feeding or walking etc. When baby gets to sleep, you can try to as well, but by then I'm usually bleary eyed but awake.

Of course this isn't going to work for everyone. Futons make co-sleeping super safe, and some people just can't sleep next to a baby, and some women can't breastfeed. But it worked for me. And when Baby#2 came along I slept in the middle of my two kids and got way more sleep than if I had to haul ass in the middle of the night to two different rooms. What the hell would you do when both babies cried? I could hug mine both at the same time. ;) And Baby #1 was old enough to help with Baby #2 so his presence calmed her. She likes him more than me, even now.

Anyway, the reason I like to call it "whatever works" is because sometimes it doesn't work anymore. For baby or mom. Or dad! So that's when it's time to renegotiate whatever the hell works" and get a new parenting theory which someone else will hate.
November 2, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterJen
PS. Do you read Ask Moxie? Do it! Great theories on CIO. And everything else.
November 2, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterJen
And read Wonder Weeks if you can get it. I realize your lovely daughter is 18 months which is totally the time to start changing everything. Huge growth spurts ahead!
November 2, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterJen
'Whatever the hell works' -- love this!
November 2, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterRebecca in NC
We read Babywise before our daughter was born on the advice of a dear friend who has two lovely, well-adjusted 3-year-olds and swears by it. She and I both recognize that it's not for everyone, and my husband and I haven't adhered as strictly to the book's instructions as we originally hoped to, but I certainly would not go so far as to equate the principles the book espouses with torture.While difficult to implement and sometimes even more difficult to explain to friends and family, the sleep training the book recommends has an admirable goal: teaching the child to be secure in his/her parents' love yet moving towards self-sufficiency.We were stricter in the beginning with scheduling naps and sleeping on her own in her bassinet. Now, at 7 months, she sleeps with us most of the night (the authors would be horrified) but we're firm about bedtime (usually in her own bed) and two naps a day. Our little girl is well rested and, just like the book promised, a well-rested baby is a happy baby. A lot of people comment on that. She's going through a cling-to-Mama phase at the moment, but for the most part she's friendly with everyone, and happily plays on her own for extended periods.I think the most important thing is to stick to your values as parents. What qualities to do you want to teach your child? What is the most reasonable method to instill those qualities? That's more important than any self-help packaged methodology, I think...
November 2, 2011 | Unregistered Commenterjen_not_jenny
I hate that there are different 'clubs' for parenting and that each club has it's own rules. Why do we as mums do that? I thought AP was about doing what felt most natural to you...until I really looked into it. Although I say I still lean toward the AP camp, my kid has never liked the sling and its a fight to get him in the Ergo at times...and he's only 12 months. So...shh...I have a pram...and we wear disposables sometimes...and yes he does sleep with us but that is because we are all cramped into the spare room at my parent's house and by golly, if I had another room to put him in, I would! Kudos to Mr. Chef for keeping up the sleeping situation!
November 3, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterRachel
PS. My old room-mate wrote a post about a similar topic that I thought you might find interesting (it's been almost the most popular post she's ever written too, funnily enough!).

http://themommyhoodmemos.com/2010/08/dear-natural-birth-club/
November 3, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterRachel
Sarah, it's so good to hear your positive attachment experience with baby number two. Inspiring! Tempting! But I'm still holding off...I don't actually take issue with any of the AP practices, provided that they work for each individual practitioner. I did most AP things (extended BFing, cosleeping, babywearing, natural birth, blah blah blah) some worked for us (extended BFing, which, incidentally, shows no sign of slowing down any time soon) but others did not - my daughter thought/thinks that our bed was party central whereas she sleeps in her crib.What I really take issue with is the dogma, the blame, and the massive guilt trips. The name even gives me heebie jeebies - Attachment Parenting - as if they're somehow setting their own practices in opposition to Attachment Disorder, thereby conveying a shrouded message, do it our way, or your kid will end up with real emotional problems.The AP community warns against excessive crying, yet fails to define what excessive crying is, leaving people like me who are totally guilt ridden because the only way to get their kid to sleep is to let them cry.

Basically, I'm quitting dogma. I'm quitting propaganda. I'm quitting guilt.

November 3, 2011 | Unregistered Commentererica
YES! I'm a Ask Moxie entusiast. And I've been meaning to get the wonder weeks...maybe I'll pick it up if I find it when I'm in North America.

One thing that I"m not sure about Japanese parenting practices - maybe you'd know. I feel like Japanese mums are more willing to let their kids cry than AP-type westerners are. I've had a few mothers suggest that maybe my kid needed to cry more, and other similar comments have given me this hunch...any ideas?
November 3, 2011 | Unregistered Commentererica
YES! See...I think this is a perfect idea of doing what works. Take a little of this, and a little of that and mix it up to suit your kid and your family. I truly believe that there are as many ways to parent as there are babies to be parented.
November 3, 2011 | Unregistered Commentererica
Ohhh....thanks for the link to that blog. I checked it out...and now have a new blog to add to my collection.
November 3, 2011 | Unregistered Commentererica
i must say that i never read and continue to not read or give into a lot of that (excuse my language) bullshit too much.i always think about my mother, grandmother and the ones before them and how they raised kids. there was no bs like now and most of us turned out ok.i tend to listen to my gut.Lily cried and continues to cry when is necessary.both Will and I believed in the cry it out method and if she doesn't get her way, she will cry it out. or get time out for that matter of fact.i think it's a good thing that you are in recovery and i think Stella will be just fine. ;)
November 3, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterClaudia Guerreiro
I don't know, I think that especially when the babies are small there are more people around so Japanese babies don't get as much chance to cry. I rarely see a woman out shopping alone for groceries with a teeny babe, her mom does it or they all go together. No wonder I got looked at weird!

They do say to let your kid cry though. There is a saying in Japanese that kids who cry will become good singers. My MIL told me when #1 was still in the clinic to just let the baby cry but she was reaching for him at the same time...

What I like about Japan is if your baby is crying no one bats an eyelid. I know some people who hate to go out to restaurants because of this (and little kids who are allowed to run free!) but as a parent it's so nice not to feel judged. Sometimes old ladies will come over and lend a hand too, which I never saw in Canada. I really feel judged in Canada when my kids aren't behaved very well

I remember when #2 was 3 months old and #1 was 2.5 we had just left Vancouver airport after traveling for 23 hours and needed food bad. We were so lost and couldn't find even a Tim Horton's when we came across a Boston Pizza. I thought, great! Family-friendly restaurant! But my baby started to cry right when the food arrived and every single person in that restaurant turned to stare at us. I was mortified. That wouldn't happen here- in some places in Japan (or at least the rural part where I live!) the staff will offer to walk the baby so I can eat! I was ready to get back on the plane.

Okay, this was long and seriously tangented. Anyway, I totally agree that people say let your baby cry. But I'm not sure they practice that!
November 5, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterJen
Oh, I TOTALLY agree with you re. the benefits of parenting in Asia. There is so much more understanding of children's needs and foibles in this part of the world. For example, Stella and I just flew on ANA to North America, and Stella had a bit of an overtired screaming fit. The flight attendants came over to me, not to ask me to keep her quiet, but to ask if I wanted a break. They offered to hold her for me!

Anyway, back to my original point...I do think that there are certain features of baby rearing that are different in Japan (the crying, for example), but I don't think that different is bad. I feel strongly that childcare practices are ultimately dictated by the culture to which one subscribes, be that the national culture, or sub-cultures (i.e. AP culture vs. CIO culture). As long as children are loved, their needs met, there's no sense moralizing about the minutia.
November 7, 2011 | Unregistered Commentererica
Thanks, Claudia. You were smart not to read the parenting books too much. When I was pregnant (and even before) I read a TON about pregnancy and childcare. But it did more harm than good, I think, setting my expectations too high, giving me lots of anxiety about what could go wrong, what I was doing wrong, ways in which my kid was developing wrong etc.Now, I always tell newly pregnant friends to stay away from the books!
November 7, 2011 | Unregistered Commentererica
ohhhhh Erica. i think if we are somehow to meet someday we will be great friends. your posts remind me of myself! i was doing the whole AP thing with baby A, because the group of women that i got to know in Red Deer are the hippie fairy dust of all fairy dust types, i felt guilty if any of them saw me pushing the stroller instead of babywearing...and AP was damn near about to drive me to drink, let me tell you. no routine, just feed the baby when she wanted it, rockin' the baby sling while i did EVERYTHING because i couldn't put her down for two seconds without eliciting a wail, up all night. it was a nightmare. and then my wonderful mom told me to get her in a routine. to screw the AP. despite a little bit of panic on my behalf because a routine meant i was admitting defeat to Ap, well lo and behold. within days A was a happier baby. taking naps. sleeping...oh sweet sleep. i will send you a picture of a woman who is doing AP with two. and you will see, it can't be done happily! which, i think is the point of AP, non? happy baby happy mom?
November 7, 2011 | Unregistered Commenterem
Yes...Happy mother, happy baby.There's lots about AP that I like - for example I love babywearing, and I love co-sleeping. BUT, Stella does not love babywearing. And though she loves co-staying awake, she's not figured out that co-sleeping is a thing. So, I may try some AP-style things next time around (IF THERE IS A NEXT TIME), i'm not going to be beholden to some kind of hippie bs dogma. And I will sleep train, so help me god.
November 10, 2011 | Unregistered Commentererica
So I've only been the mom of two for four weeks, so make of this what you will...

Sort of

I refuse to accept that I'm an AP parent. I really (mostly) can't stand Dr Sears, I'm not into delayed vaccinations, blah blah blah. BUT...I co-sleep, I baby-wear, I blah blah blah. I'm more of an AP parent than I care to admit publicly. A closeted AP parent, if you will.

So, with E, once she was finally out of the hospital, it was easy to parent as I wished.

With Rhiannon, there's this OLDER KID who...like...WANTS STUFF while I'm trying to breastfeed/co-sleep/whatever. And sometimes I'm doing something critical for E (changing a diaper, middle of making lunch) when Rhi starts to cry.

I'm still managing the stuff I really care about...breast feeding is working out this time, baby wearing, kangaroo care, co-sleeping. But both girls sometimes have to chill the fuck out and wait their turn for Mommy. Because occasionally...like once every three days...I need to pee, and I'm not stopping in the middle to (fill in the blank).
November 11, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterCrystal
Crystal - I find this really reassuring. As I mentioned in my post, I've gone from being a super ardent Dr. Sears devotee to an AP denier with a major Dr. Sears-sized chip on my shoulder.Still, I feel guilty about my hypothetical second child crying while I finish what I'm doing and come get her. It's good to hear some tales from the trenches and remind MYSELF that I should probably chill the eff out, as you put it. Thanks!
November 12, 2011 | Unregistered Commentererica
I haven't read through all of the comments. Just wanted to pop in with a few words.

I came from a different angle. I had to go into post-Babywise recovery. I don't know how much you have read on my blog, but I was pretty traumatized by trying to follow BW for my oldest. Sears and AP rescued me from hating motherhood. I literally cried every day when I woke up while I was trying to practice BW. It was that exhausting for me.

So much of depends on baby's personality, and I think birth order plays a role, too. Dacey (oldest) NEVER played well on her own as a toddler. Now she can get lost in her own dreamy world of make believe for hours. Literally.

I found AP to be easier with the second, but I guess because I find AP to be a frame of mind rather than a set of practices. Babywearing helped IMMENSELY with our second. It allowed me to continue Dacey's regular routines and activities and AJ just came along for the ride. I can't imagine doing BW with a second because you have to be at home for naps, etc. That would have never worked for us.

AP is about more than not letting baby cry or about avoiding CIO. It's about understanding the science of attachment and the power of connection.

Having said that, if you feel like it's time to practice some sleep training, I would say it's much MUCH different to do so with a 14 month old than a 2 month old. Brain development is so different and you already have an attached relationship with Stella.

If AP is making you angry and resentful, then it's not working and it is totally okay to leave that on the shelf and do what works best for you. (Not that you need my permission or anything. Hee.) But I just want to reassure you that everything - every single thing - was easier with our second than with our first. There's something to be said for the confidence of experience. You listen to your instinct more and I'll bet you don't even pick up a single baby book. (says the woman in the midst of writing a baby book.)
November 12, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterMegan@SortaCrunchy
I'm so late to responding to this comment, but I sure have been thinking about it a lot.It's good to hear from people who found and / all aspects of parenting their second child easier. Because, frankly, it still freaks me out. Major.My major problem with AP is the dogmatic tendencies of it's practitioners. It's the all-or-nothing, black or white thinking that makes me a bit bonkers. That and the guilt that the AP texts so cleverly (and sneakily) lay down.There's on passage in the Dr. Sears book that illustrates a fictional couple who did CIO. They went from loving, attached, devoted parents to neglectful parents who left their kid with the grandparents every weekend so they could go out and galavant. To me, this is both self-congratulatory and manipulative. And unfair for parents like me who HAD to do CIO (given at 14 mo) because my kid wouldn't sleep otherwise. I'm talking 12 wakings a night. Not sustainable. Now, I wish I had done it earlier. We both would have been happier.Similarly, all the AP literature that connects excessive crying with heart arrhythmia and brain damage is really unkind.I guess I dwell on the crying thing because it's what bothered / bothers me most. My kid cried a lot. She had colic. She cried every time I put her in a car seat. She cried when I put her in a stoller. She cried when I put her in a mei tai. She cried when I put her down. And so I felt like I was dooming her to attachment disorder.Basically, I wish that the AP community could be more forgiving, more understanding and could just lay off the guilt trips.All that being said, if there is a no. 2, I'll babywar (if my kid likes it), I'll co-sleep (if my kid wants to...turns out S didn't. I'll breastfeed, if it works out (S is still going strong at 17 mo). But I'll be a lot more relaxed. And I won't read any AP text next time around.... except maybe yours ;)
November 16, 2011 | Unregistered Commentererica

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